Kernza
Written transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before referencing content in print.
(Music)
Paul McDivitt:
Welcome back to University of Minnesota Extension's Nutrient Management podcast. I'm your host, Paul McDivitt, Communications specialist here at U of M Extension. Today on the podcast we're talking about Kernza. We have three guests on the podcast today. Can you each give us a quick introduction?
Jake Jungers:
Yeah. Hi, Paul. My name is Jake Jungers. I'm an Assistant Professor in Department of Agronomy and Plant Genetics here at the University of Minnesota.
Jared Goplen:
My name is Jared Goplen. I'm an extension educator in crops with the University of Minnesota Extension based out of the Morris Regional Office. And I guess pertinent to this discussion have actually had a couple of on-farm trials on our farm in Western Yellow Medicine County as well.
Brad Heins:
And I'm Brad Heins. I'm an Associate Professor of Animal Science located at West Central Research and Outreach Center in Morris, Minnesota.
Paul McDivitt:
Great. So starting off, what is Kernza and why should farmers consider growing in?
Jake Jungers:
Well, Kernza is on track to becoming the world's first perennial grain crop. And there are a lot of good reasons for why farmers might want to consider growing it. One set of reasons relates to the environment and ecosystem services. So as a perennial crop, there are a number of environmental benefits associated with it. It has a deep dense root system which really helps foster soil health. They can support microbial diversity in the soil and does great things for the physical attributes of the soil. And because it's perennial, it doesn't get tilled every year, which also results in some environmental and soil health benefits.
Jake Jungers:
It's a grass crop that uses nitrogen, and it's actually a good crop for capturing and utilizing nitrogen that's existing in the soil before it reaches waterways. So it can be used as a nitrogen sink in certain areas of the state where nitrogen pollution is an issue.
Jake Jungers:
The deep dense root system also can support carbon sequestration. There's still a lot of research going on around that about how much carbon can actually be sequestered. And the jury's not quite out yet on it, but there's a lot of potential there. And that's something that we're studying.
Jake Jungers:
Other environmental benefits that haven't really been study too much yet, but we think there's a lot of potential there for include wildlife habitat and some of our on-farm partners who grow Kernza have actually pheasant hunted in the Kernza's fields and have done pretty well. So there's a lot of potential there to support wildlife habitat.
Jake Jungers:
It's also economically viable if the grain markets are solid and mature and that process is undergoing. So the grain market right now is pretty good in terms of that. There's a lot of demand for the grain. And the price of the grain has a premium because of these environmental benefits. Consumers are willing to pay a little bit more for this because it provides these environmental benefits.
Jake Jungers:
So you'll see this right now in a lot of specialty products in the organic market at local food co-ops and that sort of thing. So starting off as the niche markets, but the plan is for it to expand. And I think consumers will start to see this in a broader range of products in the near future from some of the bigger companies like General Mills and whatnot.
Jake Jungers:
With that said it, it's valuable and farmers can make some money off of selling the grain. It's also low input. So as we'll talk about, there's a lower nitrogen fertilizer requirements for it, just less inputs in terms of management, in terms of tillage, seed costs, herbicides. So there's that environment or economic benefit. And then also we'll talk about the dual-use potential. There's an opportunity to get a couple of different revenue streams from one single Kernza field.
Jared Goplen:
I guess one of the things that Jake could mention, really a key word is new. It's pretty hard to develop a new crop. And really, I think that's where a lot of the efforts with this program have gone in and because you can produce a new crop, but if there's no demand, there's no point in doing that.
Jared Goplen:
So there is a number of folks that have been working, in Minnesota and elsewhere trying to develop those external markets and trying to tap into that value-added market. I know that's one of the issues. Like a couple of the trials we've really just grown it on a trial basis on a couple different trials for us.
Jared Goplen:
But so it's only an acre, couple acres, but not in a certified organic setting, which at this point in the markets, obviously there's some added demand there in the organic markets compared to just the conventional.
Jared Goplen:
So that is one of the considerations, I guess, for any of these things. As look to try new crops, obviously you got to get a market figured out before plant 100 acres of this stuff, which I think for the most part, I think folks working with Kernza have done a good job, but it is a challenge, I guess, ongoing.
Paul McDivitt:
What do we know about Kernza's soil fertility needs?
Jake Jungers:
So Kernza as I mentioned uses nitrogen. It's a nitrogen-hungry crop in a way. It produces a lot of biomass. So right now grain yields are low relative to annual crops, about 20% of the yield of wheat, the grain yield. But intermediate wheatgrass, the plant that produces turns up, produces quite a bit of aboveground biomass. Well, so really it's the harvest index that is quite a bit different from our annual grains.
Jake Jungers:
So there's a lot of nitrogen taken up by the plant and put into both the above ground biomass and the grain. But we also have to remember since it's a perennial, there's a large, deep dense root system that also requires nitrogen. So that's one of the other reasons that the intermediate wheatgrass uses a lot of nitrogen to support that below ground rooting structure so that it can indeed be perennial year in and year out.
Jake Jungers:
So we know that there's about 50 to 75 pounds of nitrogen in the above ground biomass per acre. So we need to at least replace that because all of that's typically removed. After the grain harvest, we typically harvest the straw as well. That just promotes more uniform growth in the future in years two, three and beyond.
Jake Jungers:
So we recommend removing all the straw. And there's again about 50 to 75 pounds of nitrogen in that straw. So we should at least replace that. And we know though that the root system can mine and find nitrogen that's already existing in the soil in areas that annual crops can't because of those deep dense roots.
Jake Jungers:
So that's really tricky to measure and know how much, what we can call native nitrogen the soil can or that the intermediate wheatgrass can get from the soil. But what we've found through our research is that grain yields are maximized when we fertilize Kernza with between 60 and 80 pounds of nitrogen per acre.
Jake Jungers:
Now, when we exceed that 80 pounds of nitrogen per acre, we actually have observed quite a bit lodging in our previous studies. And this occurred because we were using older Kernza germplasm and genetics, which were typically taller than some of the more modern germplasm like the Minnesota Clearwater variety that's out on the market now.
Jake Jungers:
So we have to actually redo a lot of these nitrogen rate trials with the new improved germplasm. So now that we know that the plants aren't going to be growing as tall and they might be less susceptible lodging, we may be able to increase grain yields even more bumping up that nitrogen fertilizer rate, probably somewhere in that 80 to 100 pounds per acre. What I think will be recommended after some of these trials are done.
Jake Jungers:
And another big question around this, the fertility is, when do we apply that nitrogen? We've done most of our application just in the spring at green up, but we're doing some trials now looking at split application, applying some of that in the fall, some in the spring and even some right after grain harvest. After that straw's removed, the intermediate wheatgrass goes through this vegetative fall regrowth. It produces biomass even after the grain's harvested. So giving the plants a shot of nitrogen then might better prepare them for grain production in the next year. So that's some research that's ongoing. Yeah, typically we're right now recommending between 60 and 80 pounds of nitrogen per acre depending on how fertile the soil already is.
Jared Goplen:
Now, Jake, you had alluded to some of the yields in comparison to wheat. How many, and obviously a big factor here is germplasm. You've mentioned the varieties that are available. There's been huge gains I know made on the breeding side of things. So as time goes on and there's more breeding gains, obviously yield's going to hopefully significantly. I know it has already. Some of the newer germplasm, how many pounds an acre have you been seeing on production scales?
Jake Jungers:
Yeah, that's a good point that you mentioned pounds per acre. And that we're measuring grain and pounds per acre. Right now there's no consistent test weight. And part of the reason is that when the grains' harvested, a proportion of the seeds, the hulls still retained even during the combining process. And the proportion of seeds that retain the hulls varies from field to field, varies on a time that it's harvested, lots of different things.
Jake Jungers:
So we don't have a consistent test weight yet. So we'll be referring to pounds per acre here. And in our experiments in using our plot scale studies, we're seeing yields range from 1,000 to 1,200 pounds per acre, but in real-world environments when we're harvesting with combines and whatnot, yields are somewhere between 400 and 600 pounds per acre. So we're seeing quite a bit of a loss at this point and some of those inefficiencies are related just to timing of harvest. So it's still a wild plant in some ways and its seed can shatter. So if growers are waiting too long to harvest the grain, some of it's going to be lost to shattering and end up on the soil surface.
Jake Jungers:
Harvesting too early can also lead to some other issues, not really related to yield, but more towards quality. Harvesting too early, we're getting wet grain and then we got to deal with drying it down and mycotoxins issues and that sort of thing. That's probably for another their discussion. But yeah, so we're seeing about 600 pounds per acre coming out of a lot of the fields in Minnesota.
Jared Goplen:
And then that seed needs to be cleaned or dehulled correct to go to the processing side of things. And then in a recent price per pound, just for guys that might be considering this, some certain acres, I know it had been like in the dollar per pound range, is that still ballpark where they're at for pricing or has that changed?
Jake Jungers:
I think it's closer to $2 and that's for even nonorganic. Yeah, but a dollar to $2 a pound in that range is a good safe bet. We have a couple of ongoing trials related to looking at the response of intermediate wheatgrass to P and K fertilizers, Potassium and phosphorus, but we don't have any results from that yet.
Jake Jungers:
It's going to be an interesting situation. Intermediate wheatgrass does form relationships with fungi that can't help access phosphorus. And so we're thinking that phosphorus might not be a limiting nutrient in this system, but we're not sure. So we're doing the experiments.
Jake Jungers:
We're also interested to see if the availability of phosphorus in the soils actually affects how much nitrogen the wheatgrass can take up. There's some complicated relationships there with the microbes in the soil and the plants, but there are some reasons to believe that the level of phosphorous in the soil might actually impact nitrogen uptake. So no results on that. Yeah, but something that we're looking into.
Brad Heins:
Well, I guess, Jake, I curious about if you had found anything? We were talking about nitrogen sources for Kernza. And out here at Morris a long time ago, we planted alfalfa with the Kernza. And is that a viable option to do that? Or does it not really have an effect on increasing nitrogen for alfalfa with the kernza?
Jake Jungers:
Yeah, we are wrapping up a study right now where we actually tried to track the amount of nitrogen transfer from the alfalfa to the intermediate wheatgrass and into the Kernza. And we didn't see much transfer from alfalfa, direct transfer of nitrogen from the fixation by the legume into the grain of the Kernza crop.
Jake Jungers:
Now, that was after about three years of production. So one reason might just be there really hasn't been enough time for that nitrogen to get mineralized into the soil and form that the Kernza can take it up. So we're going to extend these studies to continue these for further years.
Jake Jungers:
So, but growing alfalfa with the Kernza in an inter-cropping system does have some other benefits, the forage quality benefits that we can talk about when we get into the dual-use scenarios. It's also can provide weed suppression benefits, especially if we want to be growing the wheatgrass in wider rows, which seems to produce higher yields per plant when we're growing in wider rows. But we know that those wider rows can cause issues for weeds, but filling that row space in with alfalfa is an option that could potentially eliminate the weed pressure or reduce the weed pressure while still providing that benefit of the wider row spacing.
Paul McDivitt:
For organic producers, what nice sources are suitable for production?
Jake Jungers:
A lot of the organic producers in the Upper Midwest growing Kernza are looking to poultry manure for their nitrogen fertility needs. There are a few places to access and find that in Minnesota for the production scale. Other options include the ammonium sulfate, which is a mined product from caves with that have bats, bat guano. And then the legume intercropping is really the other way to go for organic production.
Jake Jungers:
So growers in transitioning to organic production, they're they have this challenge of managing their land organically for three years without being able to sell the crops organically, and then not getting that premium, which is pretty challenging.
Jake Jungers:
So one thing that growers can do during that process is look for high-value crops that don't require that organic certified premium and Kernza is one of those where yeah, the value of the grain is pretty high just because of those environmental benefits without that organic certification.
Jake Jungers:
And it's also a relatively easy crop to grow for that three-year. Being a perennial, it's only requires purchasing seed once during that transition period. It's a great way to build soil health and prepare that land, those fields for longer-term organic production.
Jake Jungers:
As the intermediate wheatgrass ages, the stands actually get thicker and more dense, which is one of the reasons why grain yields decline as the stand age. And we can talk a little bit about that later too. But the benefit of that getting denser and thicker with stand age is that it's really does a pretty good job of suppressing weed. So in that three-year period, this is a good opportunity to build that soil health, bring the weed seed bank down a little bit without any chemicals and prepare for organic production.
Brad Heins:
Ours actually was organic or is now certified organic. We had transitioned during that time period, and I would agree with Jake that we see a lot less weed pressure in our Kernza that we have now. And it's six, five years old. We're a little bit older stand, but the stand has filled in and a lot less weeds now than what there used to be. And it's organic what we're doing now. So it's still worked out.
Paul McDivitt:
Can you expand a little bit on that legume intercropping? Why is that a good option?
Jake Jungers:
Yeah, definitely. So these legumes are fixing nitrogen from the atmosphere and bringing them to different plant parts, including the nodules and then down in their roots. And that nitrogen that's in the plant parts after those plants kind of senesced or go dormant in the winter, that those legume tissues can then get decomposed. And the nitrogen that's in those legume tissues is made available to any other plant or microbe that's in the soil. So it's just really a nice way to recycle nitrogen that's from the atmosphere where it's typically unavailable for grasses, and get that it into the soil and make that available for a grass crop or a grain crop like the wheatgrass, the Kernza.
Jake Jungers:
But it's tricky to make happen effectively. And one of the challenges is you got to find a legume that will grow and persist in the stand of intermediate wheatgrass or Kernza. So the timing of the growth patterns has to be aligned in a way so that the wheatgrass doesn't choke out the legume and you also don't want the opposite to happen, or the legume is too aggressive and choke, so the Kernza or intermediate wheat grass. So you have to find a legume species that can coexist or live with the wheatgrass and not just for the first or second year, but ideally for three to four years.
Jake Jungers:
So that's one issue is finding the right species. Another issue and challenge of we're working on is figuring out the right planting configuration. So what should be the row spacing for the wheatgrass? How much space should we leave in between the rows for the legumes? How much legume seed should be planted within that space? How dense should the legume population be?
Jake Jungers:
And sometimes we can get really nice configurations that work. We have a really nice stand of Kernza and alfalfa coexisting for many years, but in that situation, maybe the stand isn't thick enough for the alfalfa or the legume to actually get any nitrogen transferred to the wheatgrass. So just because they're coexisting and living happily together doesn't necessarily mean that there's nitrogen transfer occurring.
Jake Jungers:
So we have a lot of experiments going on right now. That's actually one of the larger parts of the research program is looking into this legume intercropping. We're screening many different types of legumes. We're looking at different configurations, growing using different environments, which is really important too, knowing that the precipitation and temperature conditions really alter that balance of the two species in a field.
Jake Jungers:
We're also looking at fertilizing and actually adding some nitrogen to these systems. So maybe we can get a really nice stand of alfalfa and intermediate wheatgrass to coexist. We know that there's not a whole lot of transfer occurring, but what if we add a little bit of nitrogen? So Jared's on on this project and it's one that's in partnership... It's led by Cornell and in partnership with the University of Wisconsin and The Land Institute down in Kansas. And it's looking at just that, looking at different varieties, intercropping different varieties of alfalfa with the intermediate wheatgrass and looking at how the two respond when we add different nitrogen rates to the intercropping mixtures.
Jared Goplen:
I guess one of the things I'll add with the intercropping is, it's just more challenging to manage two crops in the same field. This year with alfalfa, there was alfalfa weevils issues just terribly in much of Minnesota. And then grasshoppers were also problematic. But this year, at least the one field that we still have established with Kernza in it. Now, is interseed with alfalfa and then red and white clover, I believe.
Jared Goplen:
But with the alfalfa weevils and then the grasshoppers that moved in, it pretty much decimated the legume. And actually some of the grasshoppers really fed on some of the Kernza pretty well too. So managing that, there's really no way to manage that. Obviously there's no insecticides used or labeled for production Kernza grain. So that's off the table. And then if you're an organic setting, you couldn't have done that anyway. So that means cutting is your management strategy that usually works pretty well. But if you're going to harvest a grain, that doesn't necessarily work all that well.
Jared Goplen:
So this year, basically the legumes were toast. There was nothing there until we finally... Basically the grain was ready to harvest. And then in our case, we actually bailed up the forage at that time after some yield checks were taken and whatnot, but it is challenging to be manage both of those crops at the same time when you have some of these pest issues that pop up.
Paul McDivitt:
Jake, can you talk a little more about Kernza's potential to be used as a dual-use crop?
Jake Jungers:
Yeah, I think this is the dual-use potential of Kernza is really a economic safety net for those considering growing Kernza. And I think it's really key to the potential profitability at this stage, knowing that the market for the grain is still evolving and still growing and the prices still changing a little bit. The dual-use potential is really key.
Jake Jungers:
So this is how it works. Intermediate wheatgrass is a forage grass. It was introduced to the US as a forage crop in the early 20th century. And you can look up different varieties of intermediate wheatgrass for forage use. There's many varieties the USDA released for different environments, Intermountain West, Southeast United States. There's variety specific to those different regions.
Jake Jungers:
So it has a long history of being used as a forage crop really in pasture mixes. And it has relatively high forage quality depending on the timing of harvest. It can produce a lot of biomass. So it's got these good attributes.
Jake Jungers:
Now, thinking about how to use it in a dual-use system. Well, the intermediate wheatgrass, it's a cool season grass. So it starts growing really early in the season. We see the regrowth coming out of the winter, starting in late March, early April. And that regrowth starts with just leaves. It's just vegetative growth up until about mid-May. And it'll produce really lush vegetation. That leafy material in the spring has a pretty high crude protein. Yields are a little bit lower. So let's say we take it up, let it regrow until mid-May. At that point, the stand can either be grazed or it could be hayed. And as I mentioned, it's got high crude protein, but yields are a little bit lower because that's still pretty early in the year. So we're talking about maybe 1,000 pounds of biomass per acre.
Jake Jungers:
After that point, the plant starts its process of stem elongation. So it starts to send up the seed head. And it's critical then at that point that it's not cut or grazed after that mid-May stem elongation point. Because if that happens, the seed head is then consumed or removed and there's no grain yield.
Jake Jungers:
So the first window is that April to mid-May opportunity to graze or harvest. Then it's got to go through the reproductive phase and it flows around, well, let's see, it sheds pollen around the 4th of July. So that's a key point. And then grain is ready to harvest, mature and ready to harvest by late July, early August. And at that point, all the grain gets harvested and all the straw we recommend removing because that plant is going to continue to regrow, that field will continue to regrow. And it'll regrow only vegetatively until the winter. So again, just producing leaves, there's only one seed harvest per year. And that vegetative regrowth will continue all the way into, well, just about beginning of November, mid-November so there's an opportunity for another either harvest or grazing. And at that point in late October, November, there's probably 3,000 pounds, about 3000 pounds of dry matter per acre, lower forage quality, but not too bad. We have some relative feed values we can share.
Jake Jungers:
So yeah, that completes the cycle. And then in the spring regrowth begins. So if you step back, we have a spring graze or harvest opportunity, high quality, little bit lower yield, a grain harvest in the summer. The straws removed. The straw is very high yielding, probably four tons per acre, but very pretty low quality, higher quality than wheat straw, but it's more of like a straw, should probably be fed to dry cows or uses for vetting.
Jake Jungers:
And then, so we've got four revenue streams. Then the fourth is that late fall forage harvest. And we've done some research on looking at, of course, the yield and quality. I mentioned some of those attributes of that spring haying and the fall haying. So mechanical removal. What we actually found was in the first couple of years of production, a spring haying stimulated grain production. It actually increased grain yields compared to stands that were not hayed in the spring.
Jake Jungers:
So that's in a way a win-win if a grower can harvest that forage, sell it, utilize it. That actually increases grain yield compared to if they couldn't do that. And then recently we started actually grazing the stand at these different times. And Brad can tell us about a trial that we conducted out at the West Central Research and Outreach Center.
Brad Heins:
Yeah, so we did a few trials when we started grazing it as a dual-use crop in 2017, 2018. And so it's been a few years. But we did a spring mob graze just to see what would happen. And I think that probably set it back more than what we maybe thought it would as far as forage production and seed production into the year. However, we did some fall grazing on it and we compared dairy heifers that were grazing Kernza and alfalfa compared to regular perennial pasture. And the Kernza, it was mostly Kernza and some alfalfas changed a little bit over the years.
Brad Heins:
But we really found that there was no difference in average daily gain for the heifers that were grazing Kernza compared to perennial pasture. So they got the same growth on Kernza grazing in the fall than what we did compared to perennial pasture. And actually we probably lasted a little bit longer on the Kernza. In the last few years, we've been able to graze Kernza well into November because there's enough forage production after you harvest the grain and the straw. It produces a lot of forage in the fall and we are able to graze a long time.
Brad Heins:
And I think over the years that we've done this, we still continue. We have 14 acres of Kernza, alfalfa. The fields are probably 60% Kernza, 40% alfalfa right now five years, almost six years after we planted it. And we're still grazing it. It produces a lot of forage biomass probably more now than what it did five to six years ago just because it's an older stand. It's filled in a little bit. We don't really take it to grain anymore. We just use it as a perennial pasture.
Brad Heins:
In last summer during the drought, we actually let it grow. We harvested the straw. We don't harvest the grain anymore. It is a little bit older and doesn't yield well as the new varieties. But we continue to graze it well into the fall. We were grazing milking cows on it late October this year and providing plenty of forage. And it's almost, I wouldn't say it's an emergency forage, but it does well for us in our rotation where we can graze it late in the fall when the perennial pastures have slowed down.
Paul McDivitt:
And for growers who are interested, where should they go for more information or next steps?
Jake Jungers:
Yeah, kernza.org is a website that's a landing page for all questions related to Kernza. There's a specific tab on that web page that's says Grower Resources. So there's all kinds of resources where to find seed, how to get a license. We have a best management guidelines document that can help with basic agronomic information. There's also a section on dual-use. So that's in there. So kernza.org is really the place to go right now.
Paul McDivitt:
Great. Any last words from the group?
Jake Jungers:
So Brad alluded to this integrating intermediate wheatgrass or Kernza interrotation is really critical. And I think it's good for growers considering Kernza to think about where it would fit into their rotation and where spatially in their fields as well. And one thing to consider is that the Kernza grain yields they are really good in year one relative to their potential... They're probably about 80% to 90% of their potential in year one, but 100% of their potential in year two.
Jake Jungers:
And then depending on the conditions, they either drop dramatically in year three or begin that drop in year three. So by year four, grain yields are 10% to 20% of potential. And we're doing a lot of research to figure out why that's happening and how we can prevent that from happening. But in the meantime, we really want to make sure growers know this and that they're considered it and thinking through how they would rotate in and out of Kernza.
Jake Jungers:
So one option, and this is what Brad's doing with the grazing system on at Morris, is to just turn that grain production field into a forage production field. And at that point, you can start taking multiple cuttings or grazings in a year and not worry about staying outside of that grain production window. So it can just turn into a forage crop. Another is, have a plan on a crop that would follow it. And I would recommend a legume because the Kernza is really good at using nitrogen and following that with soybeans or pea or some other legume, or even like a forage legume alfalfa.
Jake Jungers:
So I think that's critical to think through how it would fit into rotation. Right now three years for grain production is what I'd think about. And then yeah, whether or not the forge can be utilized, that will influence a decision in what's rotated in before and after the crop. Yeah, so those are some critical things to think through.
Jared Goplen:
Yeah, I guess to piggyback off of that, the two small fields that we've had, the one was planted into what had been basically a perennial pasture, basically got moldboard plow and then planted Kernza into that. And obviously in a perennial pasture, you got more perennials that are out there and thistles especially are a problem. There's not a lot of... Very few herbicides labeled if you're in the conventional world and obviously organics. You got to control your weeds else in a different way. But one of the other fields we've got was put into what had been corn and soybean primarily for production, which, that field is pretty clean. There really wasn't any perennial weed issues there, few common ragweed and things, but after a year, those perennials really outcompete that.
Jared Goplen:
So weed control really fitting it into some of those roll crop acres, I think is a good idea. We knew it was a bad idea going into a perennial pasture without a break just because you're going to have some of those issues and thistles are never fun. Cows don't like to eat them either. But yeah, I think it does have a nice fit in certain acres, especially in the row crop world.
Jared Goplen:
I guess the other thing that I had thought about when we were talking about dual crop use is in regards to harvesting that forage, a lot of guys have Axial combines now or basically they don't have a conventional combine anymore. Like in Morris, Brad, the 9,500 there works pretty well. Using a pickup head, you swath it. You use a pickup head and you can run all that material through it pretty well, but you start running that stuff through a rotor and it's going to cause some problems.
Jared Goplen:
So guys that do have a rotor combine or anything like that, thinking through how to harvest that straw, you're probably going to have to go back through with a swather or basically or a disc mine, something like that to actually mow it off. We've been toying around with direct cutting it. And then basically doing that for the forage or the straw harvest. But we just have that very small acreage. So in many cases, it's not worth our time to set up the combine, but it is a unique challenge there from an equipment standpoint as well.
Jake Jungers:
Absolutely. And if growers who might want to direct combine that, again, the seed shatters. So that means getting into the fields a little bit earlier than you typically would, which means wetter grain in the combine and a need to dry that down. So yeah, for those interested or thinking about direct combining it, make sure you have some bin space available to dry that down to avoid any mycotoxins issues.
Paul McDivitt:
Last question. What do you see as the future for Kernza research and production in the next five to 10 years and beyond?
Jake Jungers:
Well, here in Minnesota, we're going to continue to focus on a lot of these basic agronomic questions, fertility, rural spacing, harvest timing and techniques. Continue to do that research just to make sure that growers have the information they need to maximize profitability. We're going to continue with the dual-use research as well, continue to look into the grazing, less of the mechanical harvest, but more really into the grazing. We'd like to do more of that work.
Jake Jungers:
And all of these experiments and all of this research, we're also documenting the environmental impacts. And we're going to continue to quantify those benefits so that in a system where a farmer might someday get paid for those environmental benefits, like carbon credits, we'll have some numbers to back up this system. So there's a lot of work going on with the carbon sequestration, but also water quality. And we have quite a bit more data on water quality benefits than any of the other environmental benefits.
Jake Jungers:
And that information is being put to use. So in these Wellhead Protection Areas around the State of Minnesota, these are the areas where most of the groundwater recharge occurs. And then that feeds into public water supplies. Many communities around the state are seeing elevated levels of nitrogen in their drinking water. And we've been doing a lot of research with Kernza to see if the amount of nitrogen that leaches through the Kernza is reduced compared to some of our annual world crops.
Jake Jungers:
And after a few studies at many different locations in multiple years, we have really conclusive evidence that shows that nitrate leaching, nitrogen pollution is dramatically reduced beneath the Kernza field compared to a lot of our annual row crops.
Jake Jungers:
So the Department of Ag and Department of Health are not aware of these results. And they're actually looking at ways to provide financial incentives for farmers to plant Kernza in these really sensitive areas, these wellhead protection areas.
Jake Jungers:
So that's another thing that potential growers should be aware of and look for those financial opportunities, those incentives. There should be some direct payments going out to growers to plant and grow Kernza in these wellhead protection areas.
Jared Goplen:
And Paul, I guess my response to that question is, like I tell a lot of farmers that I have questions about Kernza is breeding. I make references to breeding and the gains that have been made. Obviously, when I started this job five years ago, the yields were a lot worse than what they are now. So there's been some significant gains. And I think as time goes on, it'll just have a better fit as we get rid of some of the shattering issues can maybe direct combine it so you don't have to have the swather or find a swather and somebody's grew of to use. But I think as breeding makes some improvements to the agronomic characteristics. I think we'll have a lot more suitable crop for a lot more acres.
Paul McDivitt:
Great. All right. That about does it for the podcast. This week, we'd like to thank the Agricultural Fertilizer Research and Education Council, AFREC, for supporting the podcast. Thanks for listening.
(Music)
